Posts by Anders Andersen

45

What do you think of the ransom as proof of Jehovah's love?

by AlainAlam in

consider these excerpts from the bible and the publications:.

“no one has love greater than this, that someone should surrender his life in behalf of his friends” (joh 15:13).

“for hardly would anyone die for a righteous man; though perhaps for a good man someone may dare to die.

Anders Andersen

As far as I can read from the Bible, Christians are expected to be forgiving, because that's loving. If they would make people jump through hoops before they would forgive them, or if they would demand retribution or repayment, that would not be ok behavior. Being forgiving without hesitation is seen as a virtue. The whole ransom idea makes it appear to me God isn't really forgiving in the way he expects his worshippers to be forgiving? He demands violent repayment from us for something that we didn't even cause. He is unable of refuses to amend his own rules and let love trump legalism. Such a god seems inferior to humans in this regard.

And according to the Bible, death is the proper punishment for being a sinner. That means that after a person died, God could simply resurrect that person as (another) gift of life. After all, the dead have already paid their dues. They are no more in debt than they were before they were born. God wouldn't need really need a ransom to do gift them life again, right?

Here's an interesting scenario that just popped into my mind: what if God would resurrect everyone who died, as a perfect human? No ransom would be needed, nor any kind of Armageddon. Those of the resurrected who would sin on purpose could simply be executed (like, according to JW theology, they will in Paradise).

After a few generations only perfect, God loving people would remain.

I don't see how something that wasn't really that costly to God (except for a bruise on his ego), could be avoided by choosing a more reasonable strategy, and shows an inferior way of 'forgiving' can be called 'the greatest gift'.

(Disclaimer: I answered this with JW theology in mind)

84

Do you have any evidence that the GB had bad intent?

by AlainAlam in

do you have any evidence that the gb had bad intent?

as opposed to blind faith/cognitive dissonance and honest mistakes.. i'm inclined to think they have the best of intentions and are just wrong (primarily because the bible is wrong), but i'm willing to consider the evidence otherwise..

Anders Andersen

13

WT, and more contact, Do you think it is Narc Hoovering?

by Wakanda in

the behavior from the org lately had me a bit confused, as it seemed to fall outside of their norm.

i'm not talking the hardcore armageddon wishers texting each other about peace and security, etc.

* but, the elders contacting people daily, and having extra meetings where they have all their additional rules.

Anders Andersen

Yes, they're trying very hard to make sure the JW are still controlled, kept busy, and given some sort of superficial purpose.

It appears my wife's congregation has setup a schedule (for the sisters) to call each other daily. At least once a day some JW lady calls my wife. Next day another one. It wouldn't surprise me if the callers report back to an elder.

This activity is so good for a high control group:

Both callers and called are kept busy, no time to think or research.
The callers find purpose in 'helping' their fellow victims
The called feel 'loved'
The org maintains control over both.

With no opportunity to reinforce the persecution complex and fill time with preaching door to door or next to a cult cart, this will work very well.

49

I'm interested in discussing basic JW doctrines that you believe are unscriptural

by AlainAlam in

background info: although i'm an apostate, i don't hate jehovah's witnesses, or the organization itself.

actually i find that many derogatory comments here are extremely biased.

i think most of them are amazing people, and i wish more non-witnesses were like them.

Anders Andersen

I think the Bible can be used to support almost any religious idea one can dream up.

So many verses, so many contradicting ideas and phrases, so much 'prophecies' and symbolically phrases that can be interpreted in whatever way and be made to fit any doctrine.

It all depends on what interpretation one fancies, and what verses one weighs heavier than other verses.

9

Memorial 20.20

by inbetween09 in

how do congregations in times of corona curfews handle it ?.

there should be a video of the talk on jw.org for the general public.

are publichers just encouraged to watch it on april 7th?

Anders Andersen

He did not say only the 144,000 anointed ones are only to partake in his remembrance.

Indeed. Those who Jesus supposedly had the first Memorial with weren't even anointed (yet). And most of those who followed him (and according to JW theology have had to be of the anointed) weren't present...

9

Memorial 20.20

by inbetween09 in

how do congregations in times of corona curfews handle it ?.

there should be a video of the talk on jw.org for the general public.

are publichers just encouraged to watch it on april 7th?

Anders Andersen

I remember that there was talk about bull's blood being used to color some red wines and that would never do.

Of course. It would be terrible to use blood to symbolize blood....right?

9

Memorial 20.20

by inbetween09 in

how do congregations in times of corona curfews handle it ?.

there should be a video of the talk on jw.org for the general public.

are publichers just encouraged to watch it on april 7th?

Anders Andersen

In order of preference as decided by the GB and communicated to the congregation by letter:

Regular meeting in the KH
Smaller groups meeting in private homes for a proper meeting
Smaller groups meeting in private homes to participate in a local Zoom meeting
Individuals joining local Zoom meeting from home
Smaller groups meeting in private homes to watch the live stream on JWorg
Individuals watching the JWorg live stream from home

Where I live KH have been closed, and people can only receive max. 3 visitors at the same time, and all have to maintain at least 1.5m distance at all times.

They have started to use Zoom for meetings.

Which means the Memorial will be (very) small groups and individuals joining the local Zoomemorial.

20

Question For People Being Put Onto A Ventilator - How Is It Powered?

by Simon in

jw
friends

imagine you or a loved one have to go onto a ventilator and are given the choice of how it should be powered.

what are people picking?.

coal or oil powered energy.

Anders Andersen

To add: for each choice to be made today, I would choose the best available (or even only available) option. In the mean time I'd be in favor of working towards having more and better options available in the future.

20

Question For People Being Put Onto A Ventilator - How Is It Powered?

by Simon in

jw
friends

imagine you or a loved one have to go onto a ventilator and are given the choice of how it should be powered.

what are people picking?.

coal or oil powered energy.

Anders Andersen

It's a bit silly question.

Would those in favor of coal and oil refuse a ventilator powered by 'green' electricity when they need it?

And you who don't want to be stabbed with a knife in the streets, would you still refuse being slit open by a surgeon when you need surgery? No? Ha, hypocrite!

I think 'gotcha' questions like these are disingenuous and don't help us make a better world together.

42

If You're Just Here to spread Your TDS, It's Time to Say Goodbye

by Simon in

if all you want to do it deliver a constant whine of "orange man bad" then find someplace else to do.

it.

frankly, i can't be bothered with the bullshit anymore.. honestly, your politics and the whole virtue signalling woke brigade has actually started causing real deaths and was ruining life for many before that.. if you can't control your disease, then i'll do it for you.. it's not open for debate..

Anders Andersen

I agree with those who say that discussing politics may be a useful part of an exjw forum, because it's another aspect of breaking free from the 'neutral' (haha yeah right) cult.

The problem though is that politics is a very location-bound topic.

Most countries do not have Trump as president.

So for many here the pro/anti Trump stuff isn't too interesting anyway.

Most countries also don't have two-party system that seems to have evolved in a toxic situation in which nobody seems able to cooperate and many people don't even sincerely try to understand the other's point of view. (Some comments in this thread are sad examples of that).

Sure, it takes practice. But with so many politicians and media showing exactly how civil discussion should not be done, I'm afraid it may be hard for people in general (and that includes us) to have civilized, meaningful conversations on (USA) politics.